Posts by Marvin Shilmer

36

Those aussie elders may escape repercussions after all....RC day 3

by Witness My Fury in

damn those tricky state laws: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmeg1omfumk 15:30 on.

annoying no?.

.

Marvin Shilmer

When it comes to reporting sexual molestation of a child to law enforcement there is no law prohibiting Watchtower from having a policy that would have elders always do so, or at the very least a policy that actively encourages victims or guardians to report. Watchtower has the policy it has because it chose to. Watchtower chose to have its elders report when secular law requires it and otherwise not to.

Yet Watchtower admits knowledge that child molesters pose a danger to children. Despite this knowledge Watchtower fails to show neighbor love by giving non-JWs at least a fighting chance to protect non-JW children from known predators. It's a moral and ethical breach at the very least

"None of you should think only of his own affairs,” Paul wrote, “but consider other people’s interests also.” (Philippians 2:4, Phillips) ... Thus, we have a moral obligation to cultivate this quality."--The Watchtower, April 15, 2002, p. 27

When will Watchtower take its own counsel?

38

Cecil the Lion deserved what he got...That's right. I said it.

by cappytan in

lions are notorious murderers of beautiful zebras, antelope and other graceful exotic animals.

cecil probably contributed to the deaths of hundreds if not thousands of animals.

what happened to him was justice.. you reap what you sow.

Marvin Shilmer

Marvin, the reason cats 'play' with their prey is they are actually trying to find the perfect opportunity to make the kill. Mice bites can often infect and kill a cat, so it's actually a protective instinct for the cat.

The bite of any critter can cause lethal infection (including cats). So what? Cat's don't know much about biology.

I've seen cats in the wild tinker with wounded birds, snakes (venomous and non-venomous), dogs, fish, rabbits, squirrels, fawns, cats (kittens in particular) and other animals. I've watched these episodes last sometimes for hours, and sometimes the prey animal is left to die on its own without the cat taking flesh to eat. Nature is brutal.

38

Cecil the Lion deserved what he got...That's right. I said it.

by cappytan in

lions are notorious murderers of beautiful zebras, antelope and other graceful exotic animals.

cecil probably contributed to the deaths of hundreds if not thousands of animals.

what happened to him was justice.. you reap what you sow.

Marvin Shilmer

I have a lot of experience working with animals both wild and domestic. I've hunted and killed lots of wild animals in my life, and I've slaughtered lots of domesticated animals too, in most cases for food. I've killed animals in self-defense and in defense of other prey animals. I've also done a fair amount of what I consider to be mercy killing of animals. An animal who's outlived its useful life or is suffering deserves, from my human perspective, to rest and to meet that rest with as little suffering as possible. I do not hunt for trophies or sport. For me killing is about food or mercy, and in some cases defense.

Killing is not usually a pretty thing. For anyone who's not used to it, it can be nauseating to think of. I doubt the hunter in this case intended for the animal (Cecil the lion) to suffer for nearly two days before he dispatched it, but that sometimes happens. I don't see anyone throwing rocks at the American Indians' historical practice of taking large animals with bow and arrow, and some of those animals took weeks to die. That said, illegal killing is despicable and should be dealt with accordingly. I don't know who broke the law in this instance, if anyone did. But if someone did break the law then they should suffer the consequence.

When it comes to hunting for sport, ironically in nature I find the cat family to be notorious at killing for the sport. I see it all the time, even among domesticated cats I see it. Often I've seen cats prey on and capture animals to do nothing but kick the critter around until it ultimately is dispatched. Not to humanize it, but from a human perspective it looks like entertainment. Nature is brutal.

29

Is It Time to regroup?

by John Aquila in

how much do you want to bet that the organization has already started preparing articles for the watchtower magazines, convention talks, circuit overseers talks and letters to bodies of elders, to refute what is happening in australia?

.

right now the most important thing for the wt to do is protect their image that they are gods visible organization.especially in the u.s. and latin american countries.

Marvin Shilmer

Watchtower has a much, much bigger problem on its hands than what we see going on in Australia. Unfortunately for Watchtower in a court document filed May 23, 2012 the Watchtower organization made an admission in writing that, given the current environment, is sure to cause considerable issues.

In this document Watchtower admits that were it to supply information in its database about allegations and victims of sexual molestation of children reported by its appointed elders in the United States, Watchtower "would be forced to defend themselves against claim after claim originating from the different corners of the nation during the past twenty years."

I've not heard much about this document, but now it's sure to get some attention. With this document we have an admission from Watchtower that it has a virtual boatload of names in its database of child molestors that, until now, have gone unreported.

Here: Watchtower's Database — What is the real fear?

Make no mistake. In Watchtower-land pedophiles are literally everywhere, and they're not being reported!

29

Is It Time to regroup?

by John Aquila in

how much do you want to bet that the organization has already started preparing articles for the watchtower magazines, convention talks, circuit overseers talks and letters to bodies of elders, to refute what is happening in australia?

.

right now the most important thing for the wt to do is protect their image that they are gods visible organization.especially in the u.s. and latin american countries.

Marvin Shilmer

One piece of testimony that got my attention was of the former CO and DO. I forget his name, but he was among the first compelled to testify. He testified that he had been involved with only one case of reported child molestation during his time as an elder, CO and DO. This cannot possibly be true. In my experience there is not hardly any congregation that today has not heard at least on instance alleging child molestation. I've asked around about this and have extensive contacts, not to mention my own personal experience from multiple congregations. What that former CO/DO and current elder said just can't be true.

24

Baiting Dubs for fun and amusement

by TerryWalstrom in

jw: "wha-a-a-t?

mormon: "okay.

other jw: "that's just .

Marvin Shilmer

The JWs are just stupid!

No. I don't think so. More likely is that 1) socially JWs behave far more commonly than they think (most folks don't take their own chosen religion nearly as serious as a lot of ex-JWs did at one time, and these days the average JW acts about the same way as "most folks") and 2) JWs are very misguided at every level of exposure within the religious hierarchy.

34

If Disfellowshipping pedophiles protects the congregation, what does it do for "Those Outside" they are expelled to?

by Wasanelder Once in

we all know the wt basis for disfellowshipping, (1 corinthians 5:9-13) 9 12 for what do i have to do with judging those outside?

do you not judge those inside, 13 while god judges those outside?

remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.. if removing "the man" is a protection for the congregation and no police are called, what does it say about the witnesses view of the world?

Marvin Shilmer

cappytan thanks for taking time to share that snippet of video. Wish I had the technical savvy to do that!

It only gets worse. Dogs eating vomit is easier to watch, and even to swallow! Trying to digest this Watchtower policy is tantamount to eating shit which cometh from a dog who eateth his own vomit!!!

34

If Disfellowshipping pedophiles protects the congregation, what does it do for "Those Outside" they are expelled to?

by Wasanelder Once in

we all know the wt basis for disfellowshipping, (1 corinthians 5:9-13) 9 12 for what do i have to do with judging those outside?

do you not judge those inside, 13 while god judges those outside?

remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.. if removing "the man" is a protection for the congregation and no police are called, what does it say about the witnesses view of the world?

Marvin Shilmer

If removing "the man" is a protection for the congregation and no police are called, what does it say about the Witnesses view of the world? They have no compunction about sending predators out in the world without warning them. The protection of the flock is done by merely banishing them with an option to return, but they can rape in the meantime? Does this show contempt of the Witnesses towards their neighbor? How can you do this and "love your neighbor as yourself"? What is your view of this?

I've said this for years, and will repeat it. It is patently absurd for Watchtower theology to suggest it offers protection to JW children in the presence of a known child molester and at the same time claim to love non-JW neighbors as it loves itself, that is knowing that it has no policy to automatically notify secular authorities of the known child molester.

In a sick ironic twist of things, the people Watchtower policy leaves vulnerable to known pedophiles are the same people Watchtower wants to embrace the religion!!!

15

Elder Exposed as a LIAR at the Australian Royal Commission

by The Searcher in

the lawyer at the australian royal commission (arc) hangs the elder out to dry on his own statements!.

wonderful to see the org's little dictators being subjected to their very own personal judicial committee hearing - but in front of millions, and not in secret!.

from 43 minutes onward.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv8ptogc6k0#t=2607.

Marvin Shilmer

Why does the Watchtower only do the right thing when legally compelled to do so?

When it comes to allegations of sexual molestation of a child (or any allegation of child abuse!) I've often found myself wondering why Watchtower does not come out and actively encourage victims and/or their guardians to report to secular authorities rather than passively say "We don't discourage reporting" and then leave any adult victims and/or guardians alone to decide for themselves whether to report.

When it comes to clergy hearing confessions, I think it best to follow community established standards under law. In some countries the legal systems are so upside down and corrupt that reporting these allegations to secular authorities is considered by the populace as worse than dealing with the issue oneself.

But Watchtower has its elders go beyond hearing confessions. Watchtower has its elders investigate allegations of criminal behavior that it considers as sin, and from there establish an internal judicial tribunal to hear and prosecute if the allegation is deemed to have substance. (Note: Under Watchtower doctrine what is deemed criminal under secular law is not always considered as sin.) This goes beyond what secular authorities tend to think of when constructing statutes designed to deal strictly with confession. It is an abomination that Watchtower would have its appointees tread this ground rather than encourage victims and/or their guardians to report to secular authorities who are better equipped and trained to respond for sake of all children everywhere.

40

Is the two-witness rule really unreasonable?

by stillin in

i'm picturing a situation in which a savvy 12 year old doesn't like the house rules that mom's new husband has put into place.

or something along that line.

i can certainly agree that protection of children is paramount, but who protects the real victim in those cases?

Marvin Shilmer

Is the two-witness rule really unreasonable?

The "two-witness" policy is one we find mimicked in one way or another in judicial systems of every developed society on planet earth. Essentially it means one thing: corroboration. That is to say, if an allegation is made it cannot be acted on punitively unless there is corroboration. So insofar as this single issue is concerned, I think it reasonable.

Yet corroboration is only one of many facets of a robust and fair judiciary, and in relation to children in particular. As pointed out by previous posters, it takes specialized training to investigate allegations of child abuse. This training is not a prerequisite for Watchtower appointed elders. Yet proper training in this field is not only essential to sorting out any fact or fiction of the initial allegation, it is secondarily essential for protection other children who have exposure, ,like the kids next door or down the street.

Watchtower goes on and on about following Jesus, yet the biblical Jesus would have folks love their neighbors as they love their own self. Yet when it comes to allegation of child abuse Watchtower fails to take the simple step of encouraging victims (or their guardians) to report to secular authorities trained to investigate, that is if local law does not require Watchtower appointees to make the report. This gap in Watchtower policy turns advice from the biblical Jesus on its head.